New thread, moving into '11

[Yanks27Sox9]

haven't had much time to keep up on things. think i've got it all straight...but if i've overlooked or forgotten something, please remind me here.


moving into 2011, these are the loopholes/etc in the constitution that i'll be closing:


- fix/move the important dates in feb & march to 2 weeks later.

- clarify the 8/1 minor roster deadline...in terms of that roster being locked, etc. no sept call-ups can be added/kept, and prevent getting around the minor league rules in general.

- rotating minor leaguers between the major & minor rosters is fine w/in the current limitations. but what fondy's done, as an example, allows him to effectively have more then 20 minor leaguers at the end of the season. i've always interpreted it this way...but will clarify that the rosters lock after the final regular season game...so whoever happens to be up on the major roster, regardless of time spent there, will have used their 1st GmL year. this will prevent the extra minor leaguer loophole...as someone will have to graduate.

- any major (season-ending) injury, suspension, etc during the pending trade process on yahoo will automatically cancel the deal. it must be season ending, and it must occur during the pending process...otherwise, the deal will stand. (once in a blue moon this will come up, if ever again.)

- protect GmLs, post-Strasburg. the intent of the league, even though many of the rules are vague & up to (my) interpretation, was to protect future assets/GmLs...as that's what this league is about...that's what makes it unique.
this does not effect Strasburg. this effects from '11 into the future.
there's a part of the constitution that pertains to non-GmLs who get sent to the minors, like Nolasco did a year or so ago. they cannot gain anything by going down to the minors.
there's another part of the constitution that was intended for GmLs, and requires 60 days in the minors to save a GmL year. that is what pertains to Strasburg's situation.
but after him, GmLs will be further protected. the 60 days will still apply to demotions, which are basically performance related. but say heyward or stanton tears an ACL next year. if more then 100 games of a GmL year are lost...due to injury, suspension, etc...that GmL year won't be considered used.
i'll expand on this more...but again, this is after Stras...not including him. he's still bound by the 60 days, which he'll hopefully have.

- add IP & GP minimums to go with the maximums.
1450 to 1700 innings pitched, and 1470 to 1620 games played. only 3 teams will finish below those minimums this season, and none of those 3 teams have even been trying (managing their rosters) in quite some time.
DLs or N/As continually in the active roster spots...prolonged absence, where the roster isn't being managed for weeks on end, etc...any or all of that, in combination w/ the minimums, will be signs of tanking...and the penalty will be moving to the back of the line the following major league draft.


anyways, lmk what i may have missed in terms of closing any potential or previously abused loopholes.
i'll expand on these things later, whenever i get a chance to clean up the constitution this offseason.
and of course i welcome feedback on the above topics. lmk what's on your mind. i'll take everything into account, for sure. but one way or the other, i will be cleaning up the various things we've come across this 1st season.

[Yanks27Sox9]

the above is about editions, minor tweaks, to the constitution that i'll be making...to protect both the integrity and the intent of the league.

that said, we can still discuss rules changes too. (the stuff that goes beyond fixing current issues, and changes aspects of the league.)

that's the stuff we'd vote on.

for example...do we want to stay with the 1700 IP max? or do we want to drop it to say 1650?
danger & myself have crept back into the mix by streaming. there's good & bad with that...and it's risky. but if successful, it diminishes the draft/trades/etc that built the winning teams. and to be honest, i feel a bit slimy even adding some of these SPs.
but that's an example of a rule change we could vote on.

another example would be if you want to raise the major league roster from 25 to 26 people. doubt we're at the point yet...but sooner or later, as we all have GmLs graduating, that'll be a topic to consider.

anyhow, let's not waste time w/ bullshit here. if it sounds ridiculous, don't bring it up...cough, eggman, cough.
but if you've got a legit rule change that interests you, lets discuss. and if there's interest, that's the type of thing we'll vote on (the 75% approval thing in the constitution).


lastly, lmk here in this thread if you're bailing next year...or if you're in for the long haul.
if anyone wants out, it's cool. just please provide us the full offseason to replace your team. (hopefully that won't be the case w/ anyone though. hopefully all 12 teams will want to keep going, considering the work/etc they've already put into the league.)

[fondybadger]

I think changing roster size from this season to next by going to 25 to 26 is unneeded. I would be in favor of 1 or 2 spots for 2012 though and it would be nice if we could decide what we were going to do with that before the 2011 season starts.

As for IP I think that limit is fine, but we may want to look at some artificial limit of transactions to limit streaming if teams think it is an issue... I personally think streaming is fine and an effective way to manage a team; however, if you put a transaction limit of say 50 for the season the only teams that would have issues with that are those that are streaming (see transactions for this season in yahoo and what teams would be over that - john/drew who are streaming... it may be close for other teams, but provides like 2 moves a week for teams without tying a teams hand in a single week - which I hate for head to head leagues.

A rule I'd like to see changed is that the trade deadline and ability to add a minor league player is changed to the same date. Don't know if you want to move adding a minor leaguer date back or move up trading deadline (pros/cons to each).

Another thing with a keeper league and a teams ability to quit on the next season, I would like rules in effect that teams that get in the money are obligated to pay the following seasons league fee (not so they can trade everything for a 1-year run and quit) and maybe looking at applying "fines" for teams that to not manage roster. Something were we give $50 extra at beginning of the year or something... so keeps teams at the bottom motivated to keep tryign so they get that money back.

[fondybadger]

After reading early today that Hanley Ramirez is likely out for the rest of the year and some issues with injuries teams have had this year, I have two issues I'd like to take a look at how rule changes for next year could help eliminate.

The first is dealing with injuries that place a player out for the year. Guys like Strasburg and Kendry Morales who were known to be out for the year. As Yahoo only allows 5 DL spots, I would like to suggest each team would be allowed to "drop" two players who are injured for the season and still be able to keep them for the following year. Everything would have to point to the player being done for the year. Possibly the rule could include that if a team "dropped" a designated player, that they HAD to keep them the following year (or trade that player to a team that would). Major league teams are not limited to having 5 guys on a DL and as gml players start to invade our rosters DL spots are going to be much more likely to fill up.

Second rule deals with basically the same issue, only post September 1st when rosters expand. With players not being placed on the DL down the stretch it places difficulties on teams that are trying to compete this season and having injured players on their roster that they effectively cannot cut because of the keeper status. Thinking this would basically be the same as the first issues, only maybe not have such stringent rules on out for the season; the caveat would be if a team moves them to this so called "injured reserve list," that they remain there for the remainder of the season.

Please discuss.

[Yanks27Sox9]

Sept 27, 2010 1:31:16 GMT -5 fondybadger said:

After reading early today that Hanley Ramirez is likely out for the rest of the year and some issues with injuries teams have had this year, I have two issues I'd like to take a look at how rule changes for next year could help eliminate.

The first is dealing with injuries that place a player out for the year. Guys like Strasburg and Kendry Morales who were known to be out for the year. As Yahoo only allows 5 DL spots, I would like to suggest each team would be allowed to "drop" two players who are injured for the season and still be able to keep them for the following year. Everything would have to point to the player being done for the year. Possibly the rule could include that if a team "dropped" a designated player, that they HAD to keep them the following year (or trade that player to a team that would). Major league teams are not limited to having 5 guys on a DL and as gml players start to invade our rosters DL spots are going to be much more likely to fill up.

Second rule deals with basically the same issue, only post September 1st when rosters expand. With players not being placed on the DL down the stretch it places difficulties on teams that are trying to compete this season and having injured players on their roster that they effectively cannot cut because of the keeper status. Thinking this would basically be the same as the first issues, only maybe not have such stringent rules on out for the season; the caveat would be if a team moves them to this so called "injured reserve list," that they remain there for the remainder of the season.

Please discuss.

imo, too complicated of a solution...though i understand what you're getting at above.

first, 5 DL spots is a lot. and someone like Hanley, out for the end of the season, isn't that big of a deal...unlike Morales, which can be completely crippling for 4 or 5 months. however, we can't control everything. in other words, shit happens. injury losses are a part of the whole deal, in real life or in fantasy.

all that said...the things you bring up can be addressed much more simply by just expanding the roster size...if 25 + 5 DL isn't enough. that i'd be open to looking at. as even in these sept situations, there'd still be some piece of shit a team could drop & not suffer any consequences by doing so.

[Yanks27Sox9]

Sept 24, 2010 1:04:57 GMT -5 fondybadger said:

I think changing roster size from this season to next by going to 25 to 26 is unneeded. I would be in favor of 1 or 2 spots for 2012 though and it would be nice if we could decide what we were going to do with that before the 2011 season starts.

As for IP I think that limit is fine, but we may want to look at some artificial limit of transactions to limit streaming if teams think it is an issue... I personally think streaming is fine and an effective way to manage a team; however, if you put a transaction limit of say 50 for the season the only teams that would have issues with that are those that are streaming (see transactions for this season in yahoo and what teams would be over that - john/drew who are streaming... it may be close for other teams, but provides like 2 moves a week for teams without tying a teams hand in a single week - which I hate for head to head leagues.

A rule I'd like to see changed is that the trade deadline and ability to add a minor league player is changed to the same date. Don't know if you want to move adding a minor leaguer date back or move up trading deadline (pros/cons to each).

Another thing with a keeper league and a teams ability to quit on the next season, I would like rules in effect that teams that get in the money are obligated to pay the following seasons league fee (not so they can trade everything for a 1-year run and quit) and maybe looking at applying "fines" for teams that to not manage roster. Something were we give $50 extra at beginning of the year or something... so keeps teams at the bottom motivated to keep tryign so they get that money back.

1st paragraph...
again, would be much simpler then what you suggest in the other post, if roster size is indeed an issue w/ injuries.

2nd paragraph...
i tend to agree with all that.

3rd paragraph...
will have to think about it. might even give koby a call about it. remember, the minor deadline before was back in July...prior to the many of the midseason lists...to keep the next feb draft decent, etc.
understand wanting the 2 deadlines to coincide...but also understand why he set it all up this way. i'm against moving the yahoo trade deadline earlier to 8/1...but considering the whole, that would be the only way to go.
the best/easiest course of action would be to make minors 1 for 1 during that 2 week window. and once i close the minor league loopholes you've used this season, carrying "extras" will kinda be a moot point anyways.

4th paragraph...
don't think that's necessary. fully expect anyone in the money to be in the league for the long haul. (besides, if they did bail w/ the $, they'd get tortured endlessly on CTG.)

[guaranteeed]

I like most of the stuff Fondy proposed except I agree with Yanks on the 4th thing, I don't think that is necessary and I think its too hard to judge

maybe just a penalty if you don't reach the limits Yanks suggested, which shouldn't be hard to do unless you stop paying attention in May

[Yanks27Sox9]

^^ fondy's "yes" man

hook, line, sinker

[Yanks27Sox9]

seriously, it might work better to go topic by topic...by thread even...and we can see if there's a large enough consensus/vote on some possible rule changes.

the one thing i don't want to see is us take out the "luck" factor. will look thru yahoo in a bit, but don't think anyone has their 5 DL spots full. i know when i had 5 DL spots full, there was still stuff to drop from there if i truly needed room. (i was hording DL people, which was a managerial decision @ the time.)

anyways, injuries are gonna happen. because this league is so future driven, i want to protect GmLs post-strasburg. but i'm not really sure we should be attempting that w/ keepers. that said, i am open to the discussion...so long as we're all in agreement that we can't "control" everything...random luck, good or bad.

september's a bit different though, since people aren't getting DL'd. that said, it's all still fair...as we've all prolly had to manage it. i know i have with hamilton, bourn, etc. danger decided to cut santana. understand that too. but that's a part of the whole...the manager making those tough decisions. it's hurt me with the aforementioned guys the past weeks. and it was prolly hurting danger. but my point is that it's a part of everything, managing our teams. do we cut, wait, what? don't necessarily see the benefit of removing that aspect of managing.

[guaranteeed]

but there is a difference between someone you can cut when you know they are done for the year and someone who you were planning to keep

for example something that just came up when I was looking today, Alex Rios left a game today after being hit by a foul ball and from the reports he was in serious pain. If he is out for the season he isn't getting DL'd and he is someone I wouldn't cut because he is most likely a keeper.

While he only could only miss 5 games that could be a huge difference in the finish of the league when he is a major contributor in 3 categories where the gap between myself and someone (or multiple) people around me is 4 in three stats (runs, rbi, sb) and not being able to DL him and pick someone up could conceivably be the difference between 2nd and 4th.

Obviously there won't be a change for this season, and its not a likely scenario to come up much either. But I don't think it would cause harm to the league if we were able to have 1 or 2 spots for players who could be removed from the yahoo roster for legitimate injury reasons and still be designated as keepers the following year. Maybe even make it a september only thing as well.

and I don't know where the fondy's yes man thing came from haha, you agreed with him as well

[Yanks27Sox9]

^^ it was a joke...will explain later/elsewhere.


anyhow, i couldn't disagree more. will come back later, cuz i don't have much time...but sounds to me like you guys want some type of fail safe in place for bad fortune. (would have to call BS on that.)

so Rios may be out for the week. shit happens/big deal. that's what our benches are for. you can take brain roberts off your bench, putting rios there. or if there's a FA you prefer, dump one of the catchers & pick the FA up.

again, managerial decisions...some may be tough to make.


bottom line...no one has been "hurt" more then i have w/ Hamilton (the MVP) not playing all month. but i've been dealing with it.
and the biggest decision made to date was danger cutting ties with santana. a managerial decision. i see why he did it...but imo, he didn't have to do that. had the shoe been on the other foot, i woulda cut one of the scrubs on my bench that never gets playing time...IF santana was one of my possible keepers, that is. but to each his own...that's cool.

anyhow, will be back later to discuss more. but no one has all 5 DL spots currently full...no one doesn't have some scrub worth dropping at this very moment to make room for another player, if they're dealing with injuries...and having dealt with it myself the past month (hamilton/etc), i can't see a legit reason to change things.

[Yanks27Sox9]

i guess what i don't get is that we all have people on our bench. that's what they are for...that's their sole fantasy purpose to us...to help in time of need...when others go down.

if there's a FA that's better, drop one of the scrubs (non-possible keepers) and pick him up. imo, it can be figured out (managed).

but if this becomes more of an issue, fuck the IR shit. this isn't football. the way to go about it would be to simply add another bench spot...cuz that's what you're arguing...that you don't have enough room/etc on your bench to accommodate the sept injury.

(the rest, imo...and no offense...is BS.)

[guaranteeed]

I wasn't trying a woe is me type post over who had been screwed the most by injuries everyone loses people to injury

I was just trying to give another scenario, in addition to yours with Hamilton and Danger's with Santana

if we don't add the extra spot or anything else it's fine with me

[Yanks27Sox9]

Sept 28, 2010 13:06:21 GMT -5 guaranteeed said:

I wasn't trying a woe is me type post over who had been screwed the most by injuries everyone loses people to injury

I was just trying to give another scenario, in addition to yours with Hamilton and Danger's with Santana

if we don't add the extra spot or anything else it's fine with me

i know. was just trying to quickly state the other side...

driving to the office & thinking about this...and i think i came up w/ a possible answer. bear w/ me a bit...


the guy who created this league was named Koby. he was a GM of a minor league team in the midwest. real good guy. had a serious health scare...went hippy...and is now on a pot farm in oregon. (long story) but his intention was always to emulate the real thing...whether by roster size, or whatever. (the whole GmL thing was an attempt to keep control over players the same way MLB does before they hit free agency, for example.)

anyways, back to topic, the answer may lie in baseball itself. what happens in real life? the rosters expand in September...which is where the injury/DL issue arises for us.

whether the 25 + 5 DL is enough or not for the 1st 5 months of the season...maybe we should/could look at somehow expanding our major league rosters a bit in Sept as well.
there would be details to work out...like how to add, draft vs wire...how it effects the minor league rosters...etc. but if yahoo would allow it, simply going from 25 to 27-28 in september might be the answer...by copying (to an extent) what is happening in real life w/ the teams.
again, not sure how it would/could work yet...but do know that something like that would at least stay "true" to the intent of the league and baseball in general.

[Yanks27Sox9]

^^ shoot...yahoo doesn't allow that. wanted to see if it was possible...but roster size has to be set pre-draft.

if this was something we voted on/wanted...the only yahoo option would be to set the roster that big...then every team would have to stay under that number until september.

[fondybadger]

GML's will cause roster number issues with injured players moving forward. More guys taking up bench/dl spots that cant' be cut unless you want to lose those keeper years. In real life if you have 6 injured guys, you can replace all 6... with how things are now, it isn't possible.

[cubsker]

I'd like to lower the max IP for sure.

[Yanks27Sox9]

Sept 29, 2010 0:18:35 GMT -5 fondybadger said:

GML's will cause roster number issues with injured players moving forward. More guys taking up bench/dl spots that cant' be cut unless you want to lose those keeper years. In real life if you have 6 injured guys, you can replace all 6... with how things are now, it isn't possible.

everything you suggest i gotta really think about multiple times...cuz chances are, it's simply to exploit something somewhere down the road.


still, the IR thing is bogus. if the rosters are too small, then they can be adjusted...especially in september.
but where do we draw the line? can't have infinite rosters. all leagues have limits. and eventually, someone will be trapped by that limit. then are we supposed to accommodate again? have a fail safe for all the bad luck that can potentially effect a team?


also curious as why it was never an issue (let alone brought up) in any of the previous years.

[fondybadger]

Sept 29, 2010 1:35:37 GMT -5 Yanks27Sox9 said:

Sept 29, 2010 0:18:35 GMT -5 fondybadger said:

GML's will cause roster number issues with injured players moving forward. More guys taking up bench/dl spots that cant' be cut unless you want to lose those keeper years. In real life if you have 6 injured guys, you can replace all 6... with how things are now, it isn't possible.

everything you suggest i gotta really think about multiple times...cuz chances are, it's simply to exploit something somewhere down the road.

still, the IR thing is bogus. if the rosters are too small, then they can be adjusted...especially in september.
but where do we draw the line? can't have infinite rosters. all leagues have limits. and eventually, someone will be trapped by that limit. then are we supposed to accommodate again? have a fail safe for all the bad luck that can potentially effect a team?

also curious as why it was never an issue (let alone brought up) in any of the previous years.

Start with your last comment first. This league is different then the one in the past as we have two more starter spots (one utility and one pitching) so bench depth is a bit more thin. Second, those issues started last year which is why I think dynasty was the best option. If you look at our dynasty league this year, there are more than a few teams that are maxed out on DL spots, with no realistic options to drop players. That league has two less starters and a bench that is 10-13 players deeper.

I agree that "when is enough" an issue. We are seeing that in the dynasty league as we have talked about increasing minor league rosters to 20 players to accommodate free agents we would like to pick up, and already have DL/rosters maxed out. I will likely have a vote on a 2 player IR list for that league for next season, unless we can come up with good reasons not to do it here.

Realistically I do not see the injured/DL issues effecting this league for the 2011 season. 2012 or so may be a different story and come 2013 with GML's more prevalent on teams that the IR thing or some other solution to be more realistic to add.

In short term I think adding 1 or maybe 2 roster spots would solve all the issues including the non-DL September issues. What could make things more realistic is to set rosters up where say 2 or 3 roster spots need to remain empty for the season until September. Then those roster spots can be filled only in September by guys on our minor league roster at no expense to gml standing (basically the same way a guys free agency clock does not get started based on September call ups). Something a bit more extreme, but has some interest for me.

[fondybadger]

Sept 29, 2010 1:34:36 GMT -5 cubsker said:

I'd like to lower the max IP for sure.

I think with having two utility spots, having the higher IP like Yanks has it set at makes sense, as it balances the value of hitting/pitching.

That said... (the ridiculous has been censored)

[Yanks27Sox9]

Sept 30, 2010 23:08:04 GMT -5 fondybadger said:

Realistically I do not see the injured/DL issues effecting this league for the 2011 season. 2012 or so may be a different story and come 2013 with GML's more prevalent on teams that the IR thing or some other solution to be more realistic to add.

In short term I think adding 1 or maybe 2 roster spots would solve all the issues including the non-DL September issues. What could make things more realistic is to set rosters up where say 2 or 3 roster spots need to remain empty for the season until September. Then those roster spots can be filled only in September by guys on our minor league roster at no expense to gml standing (basically the same way a guys free agency clock does not get started based on September call ups). Something a bit more extreme, but has some interest for me.

fuck the dynasty league...in that none of that applies here.

agree about 2012 & beyond, which is maybe why we should look at a bigger roster eventually.

sept makes sense in a lot of ways, like i was saying before. don't want to do it with our minors though. already hard enough to keep track of, etc. would prefer that's totally locked down from either 8/1 or 8/15 to the end of the year. think it would be better...and definitely easier...to make a sept thing w the FAs on the wire.

[Smokedawg]

Censoring?! We're censoring?!

Whatd he say?!

Spite for Yanks!

[Yanks27Sox9]

Oct 1, 2010 14:05:40 GMT -5 Smokedawg said:

Censoring?! We're censoring?!

Whatd he say?!

Spite for Yanks!

right back atchya...mr smite.

fondy brought up something to radically change the league, in terms of pitching. talked to him on the phone & told him i'd either say stfu or delete.

not over-dramatically changing anything though. if that's wanted by anyone, simply bail on the league. not trying to sound harsh...and fwiw we were joking about it last nite...but the league is what it is...this is for tweaking/adjusting things.

besides...i began asking for the ridiculous to be kept to ones self.

[Yanks27Sox9]

starting monday, providing i don't quit my job somewhere along the way, my life is gonna be hell for the next 6+ months...even more then it's been the past 6 months...so i'm taking care of what i can now.

i've edited the dates in the constitution. and i'm gonna add another amendment to address most/all of the loopholes we encountered in the inaugural season.

as we get back into this...into drafting and preparing for 2011...we can continue the tweaking of the rules as necessary.